`Los manos duras' of the legendary Ray Barretto finally arrived in the Bay Area. The famed conguero and band leader would be playing with his Latin jazz band New World Spirit, at Pete Escovedo's club in Berkeley. Barretto's latest CD, Contact!, on the BlueNote label, had recently been released for consumption by a hungry audience. The tall and lean Ray Barretto was very relaxed as we sat in the hotel lobby and began the interview.

Q: First, I would like to welcome you to the Bay Area. I would like to catch up a bit, starting with your background. Tell us about your musical roots.
RB: My roots are Latin and jazz. With my brother, sister and mother, We lived in the barrio, Spanish Harlem. My mother would go to night school to learn English, to be a better citizen. When she was away, it was a drag to be left alone. I turned the radio on and fell in love with the American big band. At the time it was Glenn Miller, Harry James and others. During the day, she would play the music of our culture, the Latin music. So I had music as the background in my life and it [music] kept us up and kept our sanity during the course of some bad years. Out of my listening to the big bands, it evolved eventually to the jazz of Count Basie, Duke Ellington, and others.

I went into the army at 17 years old. While stationed in Europe, I heard Latin rhythms and jazz come together for the first time through the efforts of Dizzy Gillespie, which featured Chano Pozo. It was the first time that that kind of percussion was applied to jazz music. When I heard that, it blew my mind. It just seemed so natural that these two worlds finally came together in the way that they presented it. So, that was very inspirational for me. When I came back home, I bought a drum and I've been pursuing that dream ever since. I was heavily involved in traditional Latin music. But in my formative years, there were the local jam sessions, see, there were clubs in Harlem that still provided places for musicians to play. I got to meet some giants in the world of jazz like Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. By the same token, I started to get calls to do some straight-ahead Latin. Eventually I joined Tito Puente's band. At the same time it to the point that I was making records with people, like Lou Donaldson??? Sonny, Stitt, Red Garland, for Prestige Records, Riverside and Blue Note Records. It was the best of both worlds for me.

Q: You kept a foot in both worlds.
RB: The main criteria are that it was good music. The labels were secondary. In that process the evolution lead to me having my own band. I lead a dance band, a straight-ahead Latin dance band, what they called salsa. I did that for about 30 years.

Again, the evolution continues. It was time to move on. The Latin dance music changed, and I don't think for the better. It became very fluffy and corny, with little substance. So it came a time where I realized I had to take the next step. I was always willing to take that other step. So I started what is now known as New World Spirit. Some 5 years ago I managed to get a recording contract, with Concord Records. We did 3 albums for them. Now I'm with Blue Note. The thing I always wanted to do with this group was to respect the genre of jazz. I did not want to play dance music any more. Much to the dismay of many people who thought I was a dance band kind of person. But the fact is I'm a music kind of person. When I was playing dance music I respected and loved it and played it to the best of my ability. Now as a person involved in jazz, the fact that I as a percussionist who plays a Latin instrument does not change in any way the intent of the band, which is to play jazz. I cast aside all the dance aspect of it. [I] Tried to make it a listening kind of thing that kept all the excitement of the music but I wanted to make sure that people would get a chance to listen and absorb the talents of the individual creators in the band, the marvelous musicianship. That became the most important thing to me.

Q: What I noticed on the newest CD all the solos, and that yours are pretty minimal. So I'm thinking well, it is an ensemble.
RB: That is exactly it. I believe that the instrument I play is for support. Yes, in the dance music it is more of a main voice. I've been there, done that. I think that as you said, we present an ensemble that has individuals of great ability. You can listen collectively and there is a great sense of cohesiveness about the group, which I think, is very important. That is the intent from the start.

Q: I reread the liner. You mention that you always remember Chano Pozo.
RB: He was my first hero. Always in the back of what I do.

Q: What is your tour schedule?
RB: We opened up here (Berkeley) last night, at Mr. E's and then off to the Playboy Jazz Festival in L.A. Then we work our way East to Chicago, Denver, New Orleans, and places I've never been to before. This is the first time I've taken an extended tour with this band. When we finish this one up and we'll be in NY for 10 days then we'll go to Europe. I spend most of my time there now.

Last night was a very warm reception. It was a nice surprise because I've encountered some resistance since I've made the change over. As you mentioned, people expect to hear dance music. Club owners assumed we would play dance music so in a couple of instances there, there were disappointments on both sides. So when last night came about and the people were so warm and receptive, it made up for all past disappointing times.

Q: Have you thought about putting any book together about your work?
RB: Yes, I have. I've been prodded to put down my lifetime in music and all the encounters, stories that are fascinating to tell of the people I've met. I don't see it right now. The only time something like that works is if you are will to let everything out. The games that one had to play in order to survive during a certain time. Only if you want to be totally honest would it work.

Q: As I constantly look for a source with background material ion people, I can't find one. There is no main archive or information.
RB: There is no information because this country does not regard this music as important. Unless you are Elvis Presley or someone, you don't count. We are the stepchildren of the American dream. And the irony is that jazz is a true artform that America has contributed to the world. Oustside of America, there is a great respect for it. Sometimes if you want to find out details of jazz performers you have to go to Europe. They keep better track of that there than we do here.

Q: Do you see any collaborative work with other performers?
RB: That would be nice to have guest artists. Certain people I would like to have because they would present an interesting contrast to what we do. For example, I would love to do a project with B.B. King. We could get some serious stuff with guajira and blues that would work beautifully together. From another perspective, I would love to do a project with Milt Jackson, while he is still around. He is the supreme interpreter on his instrument and a throwback to the origins of contemporary jazz.

Q: Have you played in Cuba?
RB: I was invited a couple of years ago to play. At the time, there was such a thing in the NY area of bands that were forced to fold or limit their work because of associating with Cuba. I wasn't prepared to take that on with complete disdain. So, at the time, I did not do it. Then, I haven't been asked since. It would be different today. Though the instrument I play (conga) is of Caribbean descent, I employ it as a jazz instrument so it pays less homage to the Cuban tradition. I `m not sure if certain people would think that is the right thing to do.

Q: Is there a favorite place to perform?
RB: Well, I like it here. It is laid back, the vibe is good. It's not NY, where something is happening all the time. I love Europe, especially France. It is easy to be where you are liked. And I love going to Puerto Rico. We did the Heineken Jazz Festival last year [1997], which they dedicated to me and did me the honor of being the honoree. It is just nice to play and the privilege of being able to perform for people.

Q: What is your day to day routine? Do you jump up and start composing?
RB: I'm still recovering from the plane trip! I don't work that way. I'm a pressure sort of guy. We have a deadline and I work with that.

Q: Any suggestions to the newer musicians?
RB: No, no words. You need to practice, to study. You have to go with the dream and you have to pay the price of that dream, which can be rejection. It is learning, it is going out and understanding that you might have been the best on your block, but it is a big world out there with lots of blocks. What do you have to bring to the table is that which makes you unique. But first you have to have the love and conviction, and the rest is hard work.

Q: Do you draw from any other music?
RB: Yes, Debussy, Stravinsky. They bring great out great melodies, and musical structures that can be incorporated into your music. If you go and research Duke Ellington of the 20's and 30's, his compositions that can be restructured, there is always that body of work that presents a challenge too. Besides, there is never any one source.

Even in the dance world, there was a constant evolution. I started out with 2 violins and flute, that evolved into trumpets and trombones and saxophones, and that evolved into something else and then I mixed violins and horns. Always a search to explore the music. Some things worked and some things failed miserably. But you only found that out by trying.

Q: Are you satisfied with your music?
RB: With my present band, I'm as happy as a pig in mud. I did gigs with Peggy Lee, Bill Cosby and of course other Latin musicians like Tito Puente and Mario Bauzo. I'm not one for nostalgia; it does nothing for me. One day, though, I'm looking at all these photos I have. What do I do with this stuff? So I finally put them together in a few books. Who knows, maybe they will part of a bigger project in the future.

Q: Any plans to expand the band?
RB: For economic reasons I can't It was a larger group to begin with, I had 7 people and I had trouble booking that band. One less makes working a little bit easier. The irony of it is that when I had the Latin band, I had 11 people and that was easy to work with. But that was another environment. Once you get into jazz, you realize that jazz is really the unwanted stepchild of the American musical picture. You realize how special jazz musicians are to have persevered. Jazz has never been main stream and probably never will be. The closest figure in the history of jazz to achieve mainstream recognition was Louis Armstrong. He went from a jazz figure to being an entertainer. He had to pay that price. To some extent, Tito [Puente] does that with his Latin band. He ends up doing a lot of stichk. I'm trying to make the music my stichk.

Time had flown by. I thanked Ray Barretto for his time. As he contiunes to spread his musical wings, keep your ears and eyes open for his next recording.

`Los manos duras' of the legendary Ray Barretto finally arrived in the Bay Area. The famed conguero and band leader would be playing with his Latin jazz band New World Spirit, at Pete Escovedo's club in Berkeley. Barretto's latest CD, Contact!, on the BlueNote label, had recently been released for consumption by a hungry audience. The tall and lean Ray Barretto was very relaxed as we sat in the hotel lobby and began the interview.

Q: First, I would like to welcome you to the Bay Area. I would like to catch up a bit, starting with your background. Tell us about your musical roots.
RB: My roots are Latin and jazz. With my brother, sister and mother, We lived in the barrio, Spanish Harlem. My mother would go to night school to learn English, to be a better citizen. When she was away, it was a drag to be left alone. I turned the radio on and fell in love with the American big band. At the time it was Glenn Miller, Harry James and others. During the day, she would play the music of our culture, the Latin music. So I had music as the background in my life and it [music] kept us up and kept our sanity during the course of some bad years. Out of my listening to the big bands, it evolved eventually to the jazz of Count Basie, Duke Ellington, and others.

I went into the army at 17 years old. While stationed in Europe, I heard Latin rhythms and jazz come together for the first time through the efforts of Dizzy Gillespie, which featured Chano Pozo. It was the first time that that kind of percussion was applied to jazz music. When I heard that, it blew my mind. It just seemed so natural that these two worlds finally came together in the way that they presented it. So, that was very inspirational for me. When I came back home, I bought a drum and I've been pursuing that dream ever since. I was heavily involved in traditional Latin music. But in my formative years, there were the local jam sessions, see, there were clubs in Harlem that still provided places for musicians to play. I got to meet some giants in the world of jazz like Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie. By the same token, I started to get calls to do some straight-ahead Latin. Eventually I joined Tito Puente's band. At the same time it to the point that I was making records with people, like Lou Donaldson??? Sonny, Stitt, Red Garland, for Prestige Records, Riverside and Blue Note Records. It was the best of both worlds for me.

Q: You kept a foot in both worlds.
RB: The main criteria are that it was good music. The labels were secondary. In that process the evolution lead to me having my own band. I lead a dance band, a straight-ahead Latin dance band, what they called salsa. I did that for about 30 years.

Again, the evolution continues. It was time to move on. The Latin dance music changed, and I don't think for the better. It became very fluffy and corny, with little substance. So it came a time where I realized I had to take the next step. I was always willing to take that other step. So I started what is now known as New World Spirit. Some 5 years ago I managed to get a recording contract, with Concord Records. We did 3 albums for them. Now I'm with Blue Note. The thing I always wanted to do with this group was to respect the genre of jazz. I did not want to play dance music any more. Much to the dismay of many people who thought I was a dance band kind of person. But the fact is I'm a music kind of person. When I was playing dance music I respected and loved it and played it to the best of my ability. Now as a person involved in jazz, the fact that I as a percussionist who plays a Latin instrument does not change in any way the intent of the band, which is to play jazz. I cast aside all the dance aspect of it. [I] Tried to make it a listening kind of thing that kept all the excitement of the music but I wanted to make sure that people would get a chance to listen and absorb the talents of the individual creators in the band, the marvelous musicianship. That became the most important thing to me.

Q: What I noticed on the newest CD all the solos, and that yours are pretty minimal. So I'm thinking well, it is an ensemble.
RB: That is exactly it. I believe that the instrument I play is for support. Yes, in the dance music it is more of a main voice. I've been there, done that. I think that as you said, we present an ensemble that has individuals of great ability. You can listen collectively and there is a great sense of cohesiveness about the group, which I think, is very important. That is the intent from the start.

Q: I reread the liner. You mention that you always remember Chano Pozo.
RB: He was my first hero. Always in the back of what I do.

Q: What is your tour schedule?
RB: We opened up here (Berkeley) last night, at Mr. E's and then off to the Playboy Jazz Festival in L.A. Then we work our way East to Chicago, Denver, New Orleans, and places I've never been to before. This is the first time I've taken an extended tour with this band. When we finish this one up and we'll be in NY for 10 days then we'll go to Europe. I spend most of my time there now.

Last night was a very warm reception. It was a nice surprise because I've encountered some resistance since I've made the change over. As you mentioned, people expect to hear dance music. Club owners assumed we would play dance music so in a couple of instances there, there were disappointments on both sides. So when last night came about and the people were so warm and receptive, it made up for all past disappointing times.

Q: Have you thought about putting any book together about your work?
RB: Yes, I have. I've been prodded to put down my lifetime in music and all the encounters, stories that are fascinating to tell of the people I've met. I don't see it right now. The only time something like that works is if you are will to let everything out. The games that one had to play in order to survive during a certain time. Only if you want to be totally honest would it work.

Q: As I constantly look for a source with background material ion people, I can't find one. There is no main archive or information.
RB: There is no information because this country does not regard this music as important. Unless you are Elvis Presley or someone, you don't count. We are the stepchildren of the American dream. And the irony is that jazz is a true artform that America has contributed to the world. Oustside of America, there is a great respect for it. Sometimes if you want to find out details of jazz performers you have to go to Europe. They keep better track of that there than we do here.

Q: Do you see any collaborative work with other performers?
RB: That would be nice to have guest artists. Certain people I would like to have because they would present an interesting contrast to what we do. For example, I would love to do a project with B.B. King. We could get some serious stuff with guajira and blues that would work beautifully together. From another perspective, I would love to do a project with Milt Jackson, while he is still around. He is the supreme interpreter on his instrument and a throwback to the origins of contemporary jazz.

Q: Have you played in Cuba?
RB: I was invited a couple of years ago to play. At the time, there was such a thing in the NY area of bands that were forced to fold or limit their work because of associating with Cuba. I wasn't prepared to take that on with complete disdain. So, at the time, I did not do it. Then, I haven't been asked since. It would be different today. Though the instrument I play (conga) is of Caribbean descent, I employ it as a jazz instrument so it pays less homage to the Cuban tradition. I `m not sure if certain people would think that is the right thing to do.

Q: Is there a favorite place to perform?
RB: Well, I like it here. It is laid back, the vibe is good. It's not NY, where something is happening all the time. I love Europe, especially France. It is easy to be where you are liked. And I love going to Puerto Rico. We did the Heineken Jazz Festival last year [1997], which they dedicated to me and did me the honor of being the honoree. It is just nice to play and the privilege of being able to perform for people.

Q: What is your day to day routine? Do you jump up and start composing?
RB: I'm still recovering from the plane trip! I don't work that way. I'm a pressure sort of guy. We have a deadline and I work with that.

Q: Any suggestions to the newer musicians?
RB: No, no words. You need to practice, to study. You have to go with the dream and you have to pay the price of that dream, which can be rejection. It is learning, it is going out and understanding that you might have been the best on your block, but it is a big world out there with lots of blocks. What do you have to bring to the table is that which makes you unique. But first you have to have the love and conviction, and the rest is hard work.

Q: Do you draw from any other music?
RB: Yes, Debussy, Stravinsky. They bring great out great melodies, and musical structures that can be incorporated into your music. If you go and research Duke Ellington of the 20's and 30's, his compositions that can be restructured, there is always that body of work that presents a challenge too. Besides, there is never any one source.

Even in the dance world, there was a constant evolution. I started out with 2 violins and flute, that evolved into trumpets and trombones and saxophones, and that evolved into something else and then I mixed violins and horns. Always a search to explore the music. Some things worked and some things failed miserably. But you only found that out by trying.

Q: Are you satisfied with your music?
RB: With my present band, I'm as happy as a pig in mud. I did gigs with Peggy Lee, Bill Cosby and of course other Latin musicians like Tito Puente and Mario Bauzo. I'm not one for nostalgia; it does nothing for me. One day, though, I'm looking at all these photos I have. What do I do with this stuff? So I finally put them together in a few books. Who knows, maybe they will part of a bigger project in the future.

Q: Any plans to expand the band?
RB: For economic reasons I can't It was a larger group to begin with, I had 7 people and I had trouble booking that band. One less makes working a little bit easier. The irony of it is that when I had the Latin band, I had 11 people and that was easy to work with. But that was another environment. Once you get into jazz, you realize that jazz is really the unwanted stepchild of the American musical picture. You realize how special jazz musicians are to have persevered. Jazz has never been main stream and probably never will be. The closest figure in the history of jazz to achieve mainstream recognition was Louis Armstrong. He went from a jazz figure to being an entertainer. He had to pay that price. To some extent, Tito [Puente] does that with his Latin band. He ends up doing a lot of stichk. I'm trying to make the music my stichk.

Time had flown by. I thanked Ray Barretto for his time. As he contiunes to spread his musical wings, keep your ears and eyes open for his next recording.